The Never Ending Cycle: The Fruitless Arguments about Fansubs

This is the second part of my three-part examination of the fansub debate. If you want to see part one it's here.

Now, I'll admit when I started this I made a pretty audacious claim. I said that I'd end the fruitless debates that circle through the fan community on the subject of fansubs. Hopefully, people will agree. If you don't that's fine too. But these are my thoughts anyway.

The reason why this subject is so divisive is because the arguments have become circular. If you assume X, Y and Z then A must be true. And then someone else comes along and says well X, Y and Z aren't true, so A must not be true either. On top of that because anime is such an emotional topic and with the collapse of Geneon, the arguments themselves have become more emotional. To the point where people call each other names rather than form real insightful arguments.

The problem is that the arguments themselves don't really mean anything.

Fruitless argument 1: If you're a fan, then you'll buy the show.

Man, if I had a dime for everytime I heard this one. The problem is that it's complete bull. It makes the assumption that enjoyment of a show and spending money on said show are the same thing. Not only are they the same thing, but you're a morally bad person if you don't spend money on said show.

This is blatantly false. Case in point: I've had a lot of friends borrow my anime (which by the way is perfectly legal), and they've watched it and enjoyed it. Now they haven't spent any money on said shows. They haven't put any money into my anime buying fund. But nevertheless, they enjoyed the show.

Now the classic counterpoint to that is, "Well you should." or "Well BitTorrent means that you can loan that same show to 10,000 + of your friends." The problem is that these arguments are both unrealistic and dangerous. First they're unrealistic because obviously people aren't spending money on X shows. Second they are dangerous because they set up two camps of people. Those who hold the "moral high ground", and who try to guilt trip the fan community into supporting the industry. And the rest of the people, who resent the first group.

The problem is that it doesn't have an obvious solution. If people could be guilted into supporting the industry then they would have been. So all it does is create two groups of people scowling at each other like teenagers on the schoolyard.

Fruitless argument number two: "Fansubs hurt the industry."

This is one of the crux arguments in this entire debate. The problem is that it doesn't matter whether fansubs help the industry or hurt the industry. More to the point, we as fans don't have access to the resources to prove this argument one way or the other.

Even Zac Bertschy, arguably one of the biggest pro-industry advocates out there, stated that he thought fansubs might have helped Fullmetal Alchemist, where they hurt Haruhi. So it's never going to be a cut and dry issue.

What IS important is that the industry thinks that fansubs are hurting it. In fact, probably one of the most astute comments I've heard about it came from Anime Roundtable, when one of the commentators stated, "It makes a good excuse." And it does.

But it doesn't make for a good debate, because whether or not fansubs help or hurt the industry, the industry will continue to claim that fansubs are bad. And no matter how much people say otherwise, it won't change their minds at this point.

Fruitless argument number three: "People download fansubs because of X"

In the end, it doesn't matter why people download fansubs. What is more important is what fansubs represent - a first view of the series. As I've stated before entertainment has a limited shelf life. Several studies have shown that the more a person views a particular piece of entertainment the less they enjoy it. This is something I've expirienced personally. I have to have a cooling off time before I rewatch a show, even if I enjoy it more on the second viewing, there is a certain sense of tension that is lost now that I know how the show ends.

The reason why this argument is fruitless is that without a massive study we'll never know why people download fansubs. And to top it off, even with a massive study, people are just as likely to lie.

So the way around this argument is to understand, that no matter why people are downloading they ARE downloading these shows.

The question remains why do we need to stop the fruitless debate? The answer is simple, because it polarizes the anime community. On top of that, they increase the resentment between the people who purchase anime, the people who purchase and download and the people who just download. In essence, the community can't speak in one voice, to say what they want.

Which is obviously - Anime now, when it comes out.

Oh ADV, why do you taunt me so?

So when I heard about Anime Network putting up the first episode of Tengen Toppan Gurren Lagann, I was stoked. Seriously, this is what the anime blogs and the ANN forums have clamored about for the last few months. Now it isn't necessarily as quick as it needs to be to eliminate the need for fansubs, but it's a step in the right direction. Moe Check!, Anime Diet and The Anime Almanac all wrote good posts on it and I'd just be repeating them.

In fact I was so stoked that I NEEDED to see it right then. After hearing how great this series was, I wanted to understand what it meant to have a drill that pierced the heavens. Doesn't everyone want to be in on the joke?

What follows is a transcript of what happened:

12:00 AM - Ooooo. Neat. I can finally see what all this hype is about. First go to ANN - and there's that banner. Hell, they've turned their entire front page into an ad for the Anime Network, which is nice because then I don't have to sort through their news to find the article with the link. All I need to do is click and... there. And it's right there on the front page, all I need to do is hit the banner. It says I need Flash 9 to run this, I don't think it's a problem. Click. And there we are coming into ADV land, time to pull up Gurren Lagann and just watch it. It all seems pretty simple.

12:10 AM - So the first ad, I see is for a home loan? Um... yeah. How come I don't think that's your target audience there, guys? Who do you think watches anime? The nine to five, shirt and tie crowd?

Granted, it's for one of those, "Sure, we'll give you money for nothing. Except that if you miss a payment you're interest rate is going to go up to a million percent. Oh you didn't see that, it's right there in the fine print." companies.

12:11 AM - Okay, that exercise in silliness is done. Now for the show.

12:12 AM - I'm waiting.

12:13 AM - I'm still waiting.

12:14 AM - Um, yeah. I'm going to get coffee.

12:16 AM - Okay, so I'm done with this. I'm going to shut this puppy down and try to reboot Internet Explorer. I get the oh-so-helpful box of death from Vista asking me whether I want to A) Close the program. B) Shove a banana up my butt and dance around like a monkey. or C) Wait until the ice caps melt and use the salt water to channel the signal directly to my brain. I choose A. (Okay so I almost made a Pokemon crack right there, but I figured that it would be a little too groan inspiring.)

12:18 AM - Starting up IE again. I go through all the same steps again. Pull up the Anime Network's screen and wait. Okay so another ad, it's one of those bizzarro ANN ads. Sorry to break it to you guys, the fastest doesn't mean the best. But I've already done my ANN rant. I'm not going to talk about it any more.

12:20 AM - So I'm still waiting. As I'm waiting, I notice there's an error symbol down in the corner of the window. Hrm... I wonder if I don't really have Flash 9. It's possible. I mean the computer isn't a year old yet, but those folks over at Adobe could have churned out a new version by now.

12:25 AM - I go to the Flash Site, and dance around the pages. Hrm... well, it says I've got Flash 9. Maybe I just don't have the latest version. So, I download it and head back to the Anime Network page.

12:28 AM - Now, it's giving me a pop-up window. I'm getting excited, maybe I'm going to finally get to see the show. I'm trembling with anticipation. Okay, so maybe I'm not trembling, but I'm starting to get stoked. Why? Because I want to drill my way into the heavens. Oh yes. I'm started to be able to find the show without even trying. I pull it up and sit through another ad. This time for UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie. I still kind of want to see that show... except that it looks kind of stupid, oh wait, that's done and here we go!

12:29 AM - Here we go?

12:30 AM - We're going any time now?

12:31 AM - Okay guys, this is starting to get ridiculous. I know that this thing works. I saw three, count them, three blog posts reviewing this player. But do I get to see the show? No, of course not. And why not? I'm starting to think ADV has honed in on my computer and is denying me this show on purpose. I can imagine John Ledford has sent out a memo saying, "Yeah, everyone else in America and Canada can watch this show, but you see that guy over in Maryland, I think his name is Cameron or something. Well he can't watch it. Why? Did you just ask me why? To the re-education camps with you!"

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

12:40 - After not only trying to load Gurren Lagann, but also another random show. I'm pretty sure it isn't going to work for me. So I'm left with only one recourse - to restart my computer. I hate doing it because it always takes forever to restart, but I WILL SEE GURREN LAGANN TONIGHT!

12:50 AM - After a cigarette break, I come back to my computer. This time, yes this time, I will have a heavenly drill that will piece the ceiling that ADV has put above me. Oh I'm going to be on team Lagann that's for certain.

12:55 AM - I'm denied yet again.

1:00 AM - I go onto Netflix and watch an old episode of Saiyuki. Yeah... it sucks, but at least I get to watch it.

Epilogue - I did get the player to work this morning. But there isn't a FAQ for the player. There's no way to troubleshoot it. In fact, if it doesn't work then evidently you're screwed and that's that.

Or John Ledford really does have a crystal ball and is gunning for me. I mean who knows. Maybe I did something to him in a previous life.

Anime Bloggers Unite! Haruhi, Fan Art, Meta Meta and All time favorite series

So I thought I'd do something a bit different. My poll is almost up, and it looks like most people who visit this Site are too ambivalent to vote. But for the majority of people who aren't, they'd like to see me do critique and analysis on blogs.

Well as part of that I thought I'd step out of my shell a bit and offer up some stuff that I came across on AnimeNano. And to show that I'm not a copycat, I'm actually going to add my own thoughts.

Tea Shop Beloved - Defloned talked about the plethora of favorite series that people seem to list. Especially when it comes to all-time favorite series. This post is close to my heart. I'm still struggling with how to define an all-time favorite series. And why, some series that have some problems are on my all-time favs list, but some series with problems aren't.

But I do agree with Defloned. There isn't any reason to have more than 20 all-time favorite series. It's a sign that people aren't really being serious with themselves. They confuse an initial emotional reaction with a series really being good. I do think the initial reaction is important, but I think it's a question of how long a series haunts you after watching it. Do you find yourself thinking about what the symbolism in Wolf's Rain could mean, or that stupid picture in RahXephon. Good lord. That's going to drive me crazy for the rest of my days.

To be fair, it's in part a reaction to a misconception I've heard floating around lately. That an enjoyable series must be great or else it isn't good. Why can't someone just enjoy a series? It is entertainment after all.

The Ramblings of Dark Mirage

So I don't read DarkMirage. I know I should, but it's kind of like picking up the DaVinci Code. Everyone tells you it's great, but because they tell you it's great you don't want to read it. Although I did think this blog post was interesting. Granted, I don't know jack or shit about what he's talking about, but I did think the part about the high price of the dojinshi was interesting. Mostly because it's part of a larger phenomenon, I'm seeing lately - so I'm going to coin a term here: The "I did this" argument.

I've heard this in the fansub debate too. The idea that X people did all this work and should get paid for it, even though they didn't create anything. It's a little more substantial in the fansub argument, but not by much. Granted, I don't draw and I don't do translations, but I wouldn't expect people to pay me more than the cost of materials to make a copy of something that someone else did. That tends to be why I support indie artists at the Artist's Alley. Rather than getting a picture of Ruroni Kenshin dressed up in TERRA gear. Ew... that's a bad thought.

On to the next one.

Furu Anime Panikku - This one was mostly a self-reflective post about the blog. But what I noticed here was an idea about different types of blogs - mostly episode recap blogs. Granted, I don't really read episode recaps myself, mostly because I don't usually watch fansubs. (Except for Blood +, damn you Sony for not making a R1 release yet.)

I do think this is an interesting social phenomenon that we tend to gravitate toward a certain type of blog. Whether it's personal thoughts and reflections, or analysis. To be fair, I do it myself. I tend to frequent the same blogs again and again. And in all honesty, those are the blogs that I try to emulate here with mixed results.

But I do think episode recap blogs do have a place in the anime blogging community. Let's face it, they're in some ways the ultimate expressions of fandom. They're talking about what they're watching and offering up their opinions. In some ways they're the primer for the hype that starts about a series.

And speaking of hype (how'd you like that transition), HappySoda wrote an pretty standard review about Bandai's release of Haruhi. What caught me here was a reference to what I like to call: the curmudgeon-hype formula. The amount of hype a series gets is inversely proportional to how much a curmudgeon will like a series.

Last but definitely not least, the Anime Blogging Collective has launched a retrospective on the last year of anime called the 12 days of Christmas. Seriously, I don't know how many of these guys there are, but check out What is eternity doing tonight?, The Animachronism (who has one of the best titles for a blog ever) and Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?! along with at least one post by AnimeOtaku - all of which wrote some awesome posts. Well they always write awesome posts. (I subscribe to all of these blogs) EDIT: AnimeOtaku is not part of the collective, but he did do one post for the project.

And Anime Sophist is having a month of El-Hazard, which is neat too. Considering it was one of those shows I watched way back when. Granted, I still haven't seen the last episode of the OVA, but still he writes a mean review. (I subscribe to this one too.)

Okay, so if you think I missed something, or you'd like to see some more just leave a comment or email me at iniksbane@gmail.com. Also, if you're interested in participating in the blog in review project, please send me an e-mail. I will be starting next week if at all possible.

And as always, thanks for reading.

Head Hurting Time - More on Fansubs and the Industry

Right on the heels of reading about the Comcast/Odex snafu, I came across this interview with Arthur Smith, the president of G.D.H Int'l on activeanime.com. Part of me wants to agree with him. I mean, he's right. People who download fansubs and don't buy the DVDs hurt the market. As HardCheese pointed out in a recent post, it's simple econimics.

But something bothers me... What could it possibly ever be? Oh yeah, we don't actually have any real numbers. Well except for this part:

"...why the overall DVD market in US is down 15% and anime DVD market, even though interest in anime is GROWING much faster than other types of programming, is down 30%!! How can that be, if not through the impact of file sharing!?!"

Besides the extreme overuse of exclamation points (I mean how do you yell more than yelling), I'm curious about these percentages. So the DVD market overall is down 15 percent? What does that mean really? If 100 DVDs were sold last year then this year 85 DVDs are sold? Or does it mean that if the company made $100 last year on DVD sales, they made $85 this year on those same sales?

I tell you those percentages are tricky. And can you really compare a relatively small niche market to a larger mass audience market at all? It seems to me that these are alarmist tactics at best. At worst, they're downright fabrications.

On top of that, I'm having a really hard time feeling bad for Mr. Smith. It's really easy to blame the fansubs. He even says "What other reason could there be?" And then turns around an points out one of the top reasons - There's a two year gap between when the show is released in Japan and when it's released in the United States.

Let me give you another one, Mr. Smith. I just spent $30 filling up a 12 gallon tank of gas. My electricity, cable and rent are all going up, but my paycheck isn't. Oh, here's another one - the quality of your shows have gone so far downhill in the last couple of years that your company has officially been branded a laughingstock.

Oh wait. But see you can't attack those. So it has to be those naughty fansubbers that are doing it to you. For goodness sake, lay off the semantics. Yes, people who do not buy the anime DVDs (or at least rent them) are hurting the industry. But to simply throw some meaningless numbers up there and expect the rest of us to run around like Chicken Little screaming, "The sky is falling."

Well, that's just dirty.